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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 12 post(s) |
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I'm Down
Macabre Votum Against ALL Authorities
65
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Posted - 2012.09.11 20:16:00 -
[1] - Quote
Exequror in particular looks silly OP and would beg the question, why ever use a t2 armor logistic again. Keep in mind these things get an extra rig slot to make up for resist gap. |
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I'm Down
Macabre Votum Against ALL Authorities
65
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Posted - 2012.09.11 20:32:00 -
[2] - Quote
Omnathious Deninard wrote:I'm Down wrote:Exequror in particular looks silly OP and would beg the question, why ever use a t2 armor logistic again. Keep in mind these things get an extra rig slot to make up for resist gap. Because this is only the First round of balances, they did state they are going to do alll T1 ships first starting with frigates, destroyers cruisers battlecrusiers battle ships (capitals i think) then T2 ships
As if Tech 2 logistics aren't silly powerful? |
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I'm Down
Macabre Votum Against ALL Authorities
65
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Posted - 2012.09.11 20:46:00 -
[3] - Quote
Exequror in particular is going to be so close to t2 in strength that why would you ever ask people to fly a more expensive option again.
Loki/Legion Bonus 52 sig, 81.8% lowest resistance, ~ 40000 EHP, ~ 810 m/s speed
[Exequror, New Setup 1] Armor Kinetic Hardener II Armor Thermic Hardener II Armor Explosive Hardener II Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II 800mm Reinforced Steel Plates II Damage Control II
10MN Afterburner II Medium Capacitor Battery II Cap Recharger II Cap Recharger II
Medium Remote Armor Repair System II Medium Remote Armor Repair System II Medium Remote Armor Repair System II
Medium Anti-EM Pump I Trimark Armor Pump I Trimark Armor Pump I
Only question mark is CPU, which I think might be overcome with a centi c-type adaptive and a 3% implant. |
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I'm Down
Macabre Votum Against ALL Authorities
65
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Posted - 2012.09.11 22:28:00 -
[4] - Quote
Omnathious Deninard wrote:I'm Down wrote:Exequror in particular is going to be so close to t2 in strength that why would you ever ask people to fly a more expensive option again.
Exequror reps 252 HP/s from RR and 70 HP/s from drones Oneiros reps 384 HP/s from RR and 70 HP/s from drones That's 132 HP/s difference. So I still say the oneiros is better
with Legion, it's 315 per second with an Exequor with t2 Medium Mods.
with Legion, its 394 per sec with 3 large T2 (much more unlikely than solace) for an Oneiros.
With Solace, it drops down to 355. Not nearly as large of a gap for the massive cost difference. Not to mention the encouragement to horde t1 variants in large numbers over t2 due to cost causing drastic increase in reshipping and a major logistics wall.
T1 version also does not require Logistics training, and relies instead only on lvl 5 cruiser for the cap bonus, which lets face it, most people are much more willing to train.
Massive downgrade to barriers for entry and resupply, and T1 variants can easily be built in mass on location rather than shipped from empire.
Also causes a massive reduction in cost to T1 fleets of any sort because of the reliance on T1 cost ships rather than T2 cost ships. So every T1 BC fleet just got a massive cost advantage over any T2 fleet as logistics always were the one negative cost. |
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Posted - 2012.09.11 22:54:00 -
[5] - Quote
Omnathious Deninard wrote:I'm Down wrote:Omnathious Deninard wrote:[quote=I'm Down]Exequror in particular is going to be so close to t2 in strength that why would you ever ask people to fly a more expensive option again.
Exequror reps 252 HP/s from RR and 70 HP/s from drones Oneiros reps 384 HP/s from RR and 70 HP/s from drones That's 132 HP/s difference. So I still say the oneiros is better with Legion, it's 315 per second with an Exequor with t2 Medium Mods. with Legion, its 394 per sec with 3 large T2 (much more unlikely than solace) for an Oneiros. /quote] I did read all of it but this is what stuck out the most You are basing your stats with all 3 medium reps and a off grid t3 booster for the exequror and com pairing it to 3 large reps despite the oneiros being able to use 4 remote reps which spreads the gap quite a bit, especially with a off grid booster. Or we you thinking about a energy transfer for the oneiros? If so then why would the exequror not use an energy transfer as well? That would make them comparable ships again. Point being their is still a big difference between the ships.
Almost nobody in 0.0 doe a 4 large rep Oneiros due to fittings. |
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I'm Down
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Posted - 2012.09.11 23:05:00 -
[6] - Quote
Omnathious Deninard wrote: So then why do you thing the exequror will be any different? Also there are more areas in the game than 0.0 not everything has to be based around it, but everywhere as a whole
I'm going to chalk this comment up to inexperience. There are 3 standard fits for an oneiros:
3 rep MWD 3 rep AB 4 rep empire gank
The only time a 4 rep setup is ever used is for empire short duration small fights because it's super hard to make it cap stable and fit for tank.
In most common use, the Oneiros only ever fits 3 reps because it's the best fittings option.
The 3 rep fit as I showed before is only marginally better than the 3 medium rep Exeq. But when you consider general gaming strategy, there is an obvious reason why the masses of players would chose one ship over another. In this case, I spelled it out above.
It's a horrible implementation of an idea when you devalue any reason why players would chose the "superior ship" when that ship gets marginalized so much. This is especially true for dedicated logistics pilots who can look at 2 options, a 220 mil ship+ fit or a 25 mil ship + fit that's only slightly worse and far less skill intensive.
The other 3 races are much more in balance than the Exeq because they are much tighter on fittings and limited in their ability to maximize full utility. The Exeq as proposed does not have the limitations of the other 3. It's vastly superior and OP as ****. |
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I'm Down
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Posted - 2012.09.12 00:54:00 -
[7] - Quote
Alekseyev Karrde wrote:4 rep AB Onieros are not as uncommon as above poster would lead you to believe. Still cap stable ;)
They are highly rare when you consider the lack of lvl 5 logistic and repair pilots out there compared to the rest of the game. And when you consider the relative ease of getting many more logistics into a fight b/c of the skill diminishment, who the **** cares anyways.
The moment you start to go 4 repairer route, you diminish everything else the ship has to offer in combat including the EHP and resistance edges. So yeah, you can do it, but don't bullshit the thread by saying it's an advantage when you aren't conceding the tradeoffs of doing it.
This is how power creeps happen. The Exeq. caters heavily to power by numbers and replenishment by ease while being way too powerful. |
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Posted - 2012.09.12 01:06:00 -
[8] - Quote
Oraac Ensor wrote:If the Exequror is to lose its cargo bonus what alternative will trial accounts have for hauling?
you do see it got 3 additional low slots right? At cruiser lvl 1 post change, it's got he potential for 3232 cargo space with 6 local expanders and 3 t1 rigs. |
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I'm Down
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Posted - 2012.09.12 10:27:00 -
[9] - Quote
Point of the whole arguement is this:
They come out and say, oh, the ships have lower resistances.... not true on the Exeq that has an extra low and an extra rig slot.
They say it has lower sig... after bonus/pil, the Exeq is only 6 more sig.
They say it will have lower repair abilities.... but it goes to show the developers lack of knowledge of use.
And not once do they even consider the massive skill and cost withdrawl that will impact choice when considering the very diminished tradeoff.
Just move a low slot to a high slot please for the love of god on the Exeq. it's going to force it to chose between capstability and tank or power repairing and not allow it nearly as much freedom. Stop with the cookie cutter bullshit where Scythe has 3 highs, so Exeq must also. |
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Posted - 2012.09.12 11:51:00 -
[10] - Quote
Bouh Revetoile wrote:I'm Down wrote:Point of the whole arguement is this:
They come out and say, oh, the ships have lower resistances.... not true on the Exeq that has an extra low and an extra rig slot.
They say it has lower sig... after bonus/pil, the Exeq is only 6 more sig.
They say it will have lower repair abilities.... but it goes to show the developers lack of knowledge of use.
And not once do they even consider the massive skill and cost withdrawl that will impact choice when considering the very diminished tradeoff.
Just move a low slot to a high slot please for the love of god on the Exeq. it's going to force it to chose between capstability and tank or power repairing and not allow it nearly as much freedom. Stop with the cookie cutter bullshit where Scythe has 3 highs, so Exeq must also. And here you kill your whole argumentation : oneiros can too get bonuses and pills ; and an exequror with pills kill the whole idea of a noob logi crowd. And extra low+extra rig *don't* make for the resist : it's called stacking penalty, it cannot achieve the same resist of a T2 hull even with full rack of resist mods. Infact, extra low slot + rig don't even make for tank at all because of one simple thing : put an ACR on the oneiros, and it have TWICE the PG of this exequror. TWICE. Tank on these ships is not even comparable. As for the third rig, an armor rig it will be most of time, reducing the speed to the level of the oneiros with 1600 plate. And the sensor strength and lock range don't seem very important to you. Oh, and this oneiros is barely capstable "all 5" too. I admit cruiser 5 is easier than logi 5, but still, you need all the associated skills to get a cap stable exequror, and the remote repair augmentor rig. By the way, the same argument goes for logi frigates : a swarm of logi require peoples, a lot of them. A logi pilot is not shooting enemies, and shooting ennemies is the first goal of a fleet. There's no point in bringing a logi fleet if you have nobody to shoot at things. So, to sum this up : fleet won't bring more logi, because they have a limited number of people ; this exequror *is* less effective than an oneiros, even a 3 reper one. Hence, replace oneiros or any T2 logi by a T1 one, and your fleet lose remote rep power. We could say that this would hurt small gang warfare, but I think falcon are still better.
hey ******, i compared them equally. Both had the same buffs
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